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Dutch Independent Media -- Not Quite
Jayson - 06.09.2003 19:51
Calling it "tasteless" the Dutch arm of Independent Media (indymedia.nl) deleted Phoenix rising, an image and related poem based on T.S. Eliot’s Journey of the Magi by San Francisco-based artist, Clinton Fein.
Calling it "tasteless" the Dutch arm of Independent Media (indymedia.nl) deleted Phoenix rising, an image and related poem based on T.S. Eliot’s Journey of the Magi by San Francisco-based artist, Clinton Fein.
In an email response, Clinton Fein stated: “It’s disappointing to think that Independent Media, of all media, in the Netherlands of all places, would censor work designed to focus attention on the rise of fascism and loss of civil liberties in the wake of September 11. Would they have censored John Heartfield in the thirties? Squelching dissent, however strong or unpopular perpetuates the very essence of what the piece is about.”
 Website: http://www.annoy.com/covers/doc.html?DocumentID=100530
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| Lees meer over: Agenda anti-fascisme / racisme media militarisme | | aanvullingen | | | | user - 06.09.2003 21:11
Criticism about Indymedia.nl redaction is more then welcome via 3 ways:
1) Fysical meetings
2) Indymedia.nl public mailinglist
3) irc.indymedia.org #nl
And i'm wondering, can't mr. Fein come over there (mind the t in 'there') and talk for himself, or are you his PR man?
| | tastelessness | 06.09.2003 23:59
sure let's equate everything with nazism... and if someone else considers one such equation tasteless, lets cry foul about censorship...
grow up and set up your own open posting site...
| | Stifling opinion doesn't help | Dede - 07.09.2003 00:32
No one is complaining about finiding it tasteless. It's hiding it away that is wrong.
I looked at the site Annoy.com. There's a reference to this already. I think Fien makes a good point.
 http://www.annoy.com/sectionless/doc.html?DocumentID=100533
Saturday, September 06, 2003
Annoy.com Statement Regarding September 11 Image, Phoenix Rising
by Clinton Fein
Occasionally, an artist produces a work that provokes such a visceral response; it forces him or her to reconsider the original intent of the piece.
I usually do not make a habit of explaining my work any more than I already do, contextualizing it with quotes or anecdotes that give an indication as to how the piece evolved.
Phoenix Rising is an exception. Within hours of it being published on Annoy.com on September 5, 2003, I received veiled, and some not-so-veiled, threats of harm or violence. It is not the first time.
I am aware the image has been posted on many Independent Media sites and beyond, and have been receiving questions and comments from "how could I do this?" and "this is the most offensive thing I’ve EVER seen" to "a stunning creation from you that will commemorate the despicable event."
It seems as though a number of people are blaming Independent Media (www.indymdia.org) for publishing this, for which they are not responsible. Anyone can, and it appears, does publish there, under anyone’s name.
Apparently Independent Media in the Netherlands pulled the image, calling it "tasteless."
While I’m thankful I am not dependent on other sites or publications for the publishing of my work, it's disappointing to think that Independent Media, of all media, in the Netherlands of all places, would censor work designed to focus attention on the rise of fascism and loss of civil liberties in the wake of September 11. That is what the piece is about. Would they have censored John Heartfield in the thirties? Squelching dissent, however strong or unpopular perpetuates the very essence of what the piece is about.
For what it’s worth, since people seem to be very stuck in their opinions one way or the other, the piece is not designed to denigrate the memory of those who died or undermine the hideousness of what happened on September 11. That is what commoditization and politicization -- the little twin tower key-chains, empty promises and political conventions -- are for.
Lack of understanding of human nature, and worse, a failure to speak out forcefully, leads to, if not facilitates, tragedies and destruction, be it in Berlin, Manhattan, Baghdad or Hiroshima.
The image will remain on Annoy.com.
| | Stifling opinion doesn't help | Dede - 07.09.2003 00:32
No one is complaining about finiding it tasteless. It's hiding it away that is wrong.
I looked at the site Annoy.com. There's a reference to this already. I think Fien makes a good point.
http://www.annoy.com/sectionless/doc.html?DocumentID=100533
Saturday, September 06, 2003
Annoy.com Statement Regarding September 11 Image, Phoenix Rising
by Clinton Fein
Occasionally, an artist produces a work that provokes such a visceral response; it forces him or her to reconsider the original intent of the piece.
I usually do not make a habit of explaining my work any more than I already do, contextualizing it with quotes or anecdotes that give an indication as to how the piece evolved.
Phoenix Rising is an exception. Within hours of it being published on Annoy.com on September 5, 2003, I received veiled, and some not-so-veiled, threats of harm or violence. It is not the first time.
I am aware the image has been posted on many Independent Media sites and beyond, and have been receiving questions and comments from "how could I do this?" and "this is the most offensive thing I’ve EVER seen" to "a stunning creation from you that will commemorate the despicable event."
It seems as though a number of people are blaming Independent Media (www.indymdia.org) for publishing this, for which they are not responsible. Anyone can, and it appears, does publish there, under anyone’s name.
Apparently Independent Media in the Netherlands pulled the image, calling it "tasteless."
While I’m thankful I am not dependent on other sites or publications for the publishing of my work, it's disappointing to think that Independent Media, of all media, in the Netherlands of all places, would censor work designed to focus attention on the rise of fascism and loss of civil liberties in the wake of September 11. That is what the piece is about. Would they have censored John Heartfield in the thirties? Squelching dissent, however strong or unpopular perpetuates the very essence of what the piece is about.
For what it’s worth, since people seem to be very stuck in their opinions one way or the other, the piece is not designed to denigrate the memory of those who died or undermine the hideousness of what happened on September 11. That is what commoditization and politicization -- the little twin tower key-chains, empty promises and political conventions -- are for.
Lack of understanding of human nature, and worse, a failure to speak out forcefully, leads to, if not facilitates, tragedies and destruction, be it in Berlin, Manhattan, Baghdad or Hiroshima.
The image will remain on Annoy.com.
| | somehow... | stokebrand - 07.09.2003 12:56
It seems people from countries never occupied by the nazi's use swastikas and nazi references more lightly than people from countries that were.
For most Europeans a swastika is a VERY STRONG symbol.
To use it like you did, doesn't work over here.
It surpasses the effect you apparently try to create completely.
Wouldn't call it tasteless, just over the top or missing the point.
Wouldn't compare it to John Heartfield either, neither in quality or context.
| | it would be good to know why | stuart - 07.09.2003 15:09
I assume that Indymedia removed the article because it was art rather than news, and Indymedia is a news site, not an online gallery. But on the other hand Latuff's cartoons usually do seem to stay on the site...
However, the annoy.com page includes quotations from Hitler's Mein Kampf, a book which is banned under Dutch law. Perhaps this played a role in the decision to remove the article?
If, on the other hand, a work of art is intentionally censored, then this would be news. For example, it was news when Picasso's "Guernica" was covered up a few months ago at the United Nations in New York.
Stuart
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Ik neem aan dat Indymedia het artikel heeft verwijderd omdat het geen nieuws maar kunst is. Indymedia is namelijk een nieuwssite en geen online-galerij. Maar tegelijkertijd blijven de tekeningen van Latuff meestal wel op de site...
Op annoy.com zie ik echter citaten uit het in Nederland verboden boek "Mein Kampf". Misschien was dit nog een reden om het betreffende artikel te verwijderen?
Als een kunstwerk bewust wordt gecensoreerd, is het dan wel nieuws, bijvoorbeeld een paar maand geleden toen een doek over het in het VN-gebouw te New York staande exemplaar van Picasso's kunstwerk "Guernica" werd gedaan.
Stuart
Website: http://www.stuartfield.info
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